Intelligence analysts never told President Bush before the invasion of Iraq that Saddam Hussein's rule posed an imminent threat, CIA Director George Tenet said Thursday in a heated defense of agency findings central to the decision to go to war.

The urgency of the Iraqi threat was Bush's main argument for the war. But the president said Thursday he still would have invaded Iraq if he'd known no weapons stockpiles existed — adding a new element to the much-debated question of whether the United States went to war based on faulty assumptions.

So says the Associated Press.

At the risk of being accused of Bush-bashing, and not diminishing the truth that the world is a better place without Sadaam in power, the question has become, "What else are we being lied to about?"

This has everything to do with everything. The police state mentality that seems to comprise the building blocks of the John Ashcroft-ruled Dept of Justice is borne from this same tendency of instituting a regressive civil rights policy toward citizens in order to accomplish the greater good, if such a thing exists.

It is this "guilty until proven innocent" line of attack that also drives the RIAA's anti-consumer campaign.

We went to war on the basis of a lie. No matter the outcome, the ends does not justify the means. As we watch the utter decimation of what remains of Iraq as we remove our troops before the election takes place and allow complete anarchy to take over, it will be easy to see, that even if the ends DID justify the means, the real ending to this story won't fill that bill, either.

Anyone who votes for bush is either rich, a masacist, or a complete CNN idiot. If bush get in office for another 4 year I am out of here. I will not live under his long arm again.

Speaking of propaganda, I was watching a show on the National Geographic Channel last night about al qaeda and the various attacks they have made on America from the USS Cole to the bombings at the two embassies in africa leading up to and finishing with the 9-11 attack on the WTC.

Conspicuously absent?

ANY mention of the fact that THE PENTAGON WAS ALSO ATTACKED.

Is it just me, or does it seem that when we talk about 9-11 these days, or rather, when the media does...the attack on The Pentagon has dissapeared? Almost like it never even happened? I wonder how the families of those who died in THAT attack feel about the media amnisia that seems to have taken hold in the US?

Why is that, do you think?

Regardless whether they had faulty intelligence or not, Bush is the last man to answer for this decision. In the corporate world, if a CEO presents false data to shareholders and decisions are made based on that data, it wouldn't matter who came up with those numbers, it's the CEO who has to answer for it. I don't see Bush's position any different. Before he committed any lives and spent x amount of dollars, his responsibility was to ensure the accuracy of the data. Oops, maybe not, because he lied anyway.

I am at a complete loss as to how brazen or stupid Bush was to go to war, not knowing if the WMD would be found. How stupid does he look now?

I'm not defending bush here but, Iraq is the size of CA. you can drive a few miles off the road in random direction, bury your chem/bio weapons. No one will ever know you had them

Unless we dig up EVERY inch of that desert we can never say that they didn't have them.

So I take it that all that Hollywood and media money the democratic party takes makes them the party of the poor and working man? What's the difference between these two political parties the dems and repubs? Not much really if you think that both Clinton and Bush both told filthy lies and both are taking money from rather bigoil or bigpigmedia. I was on board for thewar only for WMD. The Israel's knew they were there so did the British. Chances are they're stacked nicely in Syria. Both parties are ruling from the bench. When it comes to us the small man it's like a choice between communists or fascists. Take your pick both are working to take away our choices and freedoms for their own agendas. So light up now...Smoke em while you got em!!!

If Sa Damn Insane (aka Sadaam) had working WMD...he would have used them...when we started the Shock and Awe, I bet even Baghdad Bob said to himself ...Damn, these guys are serious...

If Sadaam had used chemical weapons on the Kurds and his own people, and was such a mass murderer, there was nothing to lose for him...

It's like this...let's say you have a neighborhood bully that is always fighting, and threatening to kick people's butts, and pulling guns on them...

You and about ten guys go outside his house and tell him you are coming in , kicking his butt, and taking everything he has...then you proceed to fire at the house, kick down the door and enter...

You don't think that if he has a loaded shotgun near him, he's not going to fire off at least a couple of rounds?

Sadaam is a scorched earth kinda guy....look at their attempts to set off the oil wells...if he HAD WMD...he would have used them...

Now, Tony Blair is saying he never said Sadaam had WMD and if people are saying he said that...that they should apologize to him...see the Hutton report from the UK....

You can tell when "Little Bush", aka "The Shrub that went AWOL" is lying....his lips move every time...

When I see the regular posters who usually have well thought out arguments to their rants, firing shots before anything firm has been revealed, it saddens me. I've ended my party affiliations and don't declare a political party preference in my voting record. The reason for this is because I like to take pride in the fact that I actually don't buy into the latest headline, that I sit back and wait for more info, and when there isn't any readily available, I look for it. The absense of finding weapons at this point does not mean they do not exist...and calling for GW's job only to put someone else in from either side of the aisle isn't going to get the U.S. anywhere, and it won't change much because both parties have their interests to preserve and the individual voter is very low on that list, except at election time.

Remember that these parties are in it for self preservation now and you the individual really don't matter. The reason I believe this was demonstrated by the McCain-Feingold Campaign Finance Law being gutted so it wouldn't affect either party in the end, just some rearranging of loop-holes.

We've committed to helping the Iraqi's build a democracy and if for only that reason, I believe the cause is warrented.

On election day, and all other days you feel you need to let your Rep know your opinion, let go of your inbred political bias and try make a decsion/argument based on good info and sound reasoning.

We preach "...don't take our word for it, get educated..." at this site. We the regular here need to practice what we preach and do the same in all aspects and not just jump on the political bandwagon whenever it seems easy. Running a good Democracy isn't easy, it's the hardest damn thing to do, because people always want someone else to handle the problem. For our democracy to really be good, we need to take some personal responsibility both for ourselves and for the people we elect. Those politicians we complain about aren't there because of dumb luck, they are there because enough of us were smart/stupid enough to vote for them.

I for one have serious reservations about either of the Democrates possible candidate, or GW's current direction he's taking the country. If these guys don't start coming around to some better ideas, then I'll look to someone else, or maybe write in one of you guys. Perhaps you should do the same, unless you think either the Dems or Reps are going to really change anything.

What on earth does this have to do with the recording industry? I support Bush AND hate the RIAA and its recent tactics. This website has undergone a strange transformation lately, layout and the "look" of the site on the decline. Used to be very reader friendly. And now this political bullshit all of us have heard ad nauseum. Stick to the RIAA Info,and leave the politics to the cable news channels.

Excuse me all to hell for pointing out what was apparently relevant news of the day.

The government lies to us on a regular basis. The RIAA lies to us on a regular basis. The RIAA is lobbying the government daily and the government supposedly intends on intervening in the consumer assault, if Norm Coleman is to be believed. The RIAA tried to include additional rights (hacking user computers) into the Patriot Act.

If we have been lied to by the government, everyone needs to know.

And if the audience has become so narrow-minded that the issue cannot even be discussed, then perhaps I need to find a new audience.

"What on earth does this have to do with the recording industry? I support Bush AND hate the RIAA and its recent tactics. This website has undergone a strange transformation lately, layout and the "look" of the site on the decline. Used to be very reader friendly. And now this political bullshit all of us have heard ad nauseum. Stick to the RIAA Info,and leave the politics to the cable news channels."

I think the whole point is to try and illistrate how we ended up with the RIAA and thier antics in the first place. Everything they do and how they get away with things are purely political. We cant talk about the RIAA without talking politics at length. Exploring the connections between how all these things affect one another is kind of important.

"Stick to the RIAA Info,and leave the politics to the cable news channels."

This website is about fighting for our rights. If you actually believe that the media tells the truth and is watching out for us, I think you should reevaluate that thought. There is more than just the RIAA taking away our rights and Bush is one of those things. We all need to know the truth and take a stand. We need to take America back. If we defeat the RIAA we are still far from being free, that is the point. I am not attacking. I think it is good that we are all looking out for each other. Thank you George!

Another thing.... George has posted A LOT of good and useful things on this website. Maybe some of us should take that into account before we start putting down something he posts that you do not agree with.

You will not win any converts by excluding conservatives like myself who also support boycotting the RIAA. You will become as didactic and polarizing as PETA, an organization with good ideas, but whose tactics alienate most people. I think it's important to get your message out to as many people as possible, but you risk becoming a "fringe" group with continually negative statement/articles/ that state Bush is a liar, our government is evil, we are not a free people, blah, blah, blah. There should be plenty of room for all of us under the boycott-riaa umbrella. Just my 2 cents.

I am a proud American patriot, I support Bush, his tax cuts, his medicare plan, the removal of Saddam I am so pleased that I will finally be able to take part of the Nation Elections voting for my party: Republican.

87 billion to go to Iraq 1% Medicare increase i believe maybe a little more. who do you think the 87 billion should go to?

Quick and simple:

http://www.bushin30seconds.org/

All the stuff that the media doesn't tell you, these guys do. All the lies exposed.

What was that nice little motto this site used to have? "Don't just trust us. Search. Read. Educate yourself?" Or something like that? Can't say I have the poor thing memorized, but you know where I'm getting at.

National media is NOT YOUR FRIEND. End of story.

I agree. I think this site should stick with simply anti-riaa stuff. I am also very conservative, pro-Bush and VERY anti-riaa. And I also think we are possibly driving away potential supporters with articles like this.

And I would hate to see this site lose people because we need everyone we can get.

While this article is WAAAAY OT for the stated mission of the site, allow me to put in what an RIAA artist earns per CD sale:

With the elimination of Saddam, ever notice how other countries are now willing to play ball re: nuclear weapons, et.al. Libya & Iran have suddenly "seen the light" and are at least paying lip service to inspections. Pakistan put that scientist on TV to confess his sins re: nuclear sales & has implicated the network from S. Korea, Iran, Iraq & Libya. This alone makes the world a safer place if the lunatics can't obtain nuclear weapons.

Seems to me the terrorist supporting states are taking notice that the U.S. has a President that isn't shy about putting boot to ass when necessary.

It will (or would be) interesting to find out exactly what evidence our government had which made them believe that Saddam had WMD. It should be possible now to de-classify a lot of that intelligence, I would think.

JayBDey does have a good point: it certainly is possible that there are WMD which are buried somewhere and we just haven't found it. It is also possible that some WMD was spirited out to somewhere else.

If it turns out that Saddam never had WMD after 1996, a lot of intelligence agencies around the world sure were fooled.

The top Democrat candidate for president was also saying, oh not much more than a year ago, that Saddam had WMDs and needed to be taken out. Was Mr. Kerry, decorated war hero, ALSO lying through his teeth? Mr. Z, you seem to have trouble making a distinction between telling a lie and unkknowingly passing on incorrect information. I believe the RIAA knows their statements are bogus, therefore Bush is not equivalent to the RIAA. Everybody, from Clinton to Gore to Leiberman, thought Saddam had lots of WMDs and said so publicly. But you aren't having a fit about those people "lying" to us. I wonder why? You are basically making an assumption that Bush knew the CIA reports were wrong, but told us differently. No one has any proof of that, least of all you.

But since this has momentarily turned into a political site, let us remember that Mr. Kay, although he did not find lots of WMD's, did discover a very chaotic situation in Iraq before the war, and weapons programs that were compartmentalized so that the means of WMD production could be brought together quickly, and those weapons produced massively when wanted or needed. This eliminated the need to hide weapons. But such a capability is just as dangerous as Iraq having the stockpiles. This information is in testimony Kay gave to the House of Representatives in October.

What has been found in Iraq since the regime was taken down is surprising. Yes, the WMDs that virtually *everyone* expected were not found. However, we did find much more evidence of Saddam cooperating with Bin Laden and Al Qaeda. See the article "Case Closed" in the November 24, 2003 issue of The Weekly Standard. If you are looking for the justification of war, here it is. Saddam was in communication -- through intermediaries -- and in cooperation with terrorists. He supported them financially. They trained on his soil. Saddam was paying off the families of Palestinian terrorists as well. We announced a war on terrorism. That means you have to cut out the supports for terrorism, i.e. the states which are sponsoring it. Without state support, terrorism will have a much harder time taking root and flourishing.

I believe if there is any mistake on Bush's part, it is not in taking down Saddam Hussein. We created the problem of Saddam Hussein. His rise to power was a CIA operation, actually. It is only fitting that we clean up that mess.

The problem lies in the aftermath of the war. We have three distinct groups within Iraq. The Kurds in the north and Shias in the south should probably be independent, but if we give them their own nations, they would probably attack the Sunni minority in the middle of the country for the persecution and death that the Sunnis inflicted on them all these years. There probably will have to be a bloodletting at some point to neutralize all that pent-up frustration and rage. I think it is probably a fantasy to think that Iraq can exist as a stable nation with three factions that hate one or more of the other factions. Much legitimate criticism of Bush might be advanced on those grounds. But as far as going to war and removing Saddam, there are many reasons to justify this, and while the WMD justification turned out to be misguided, other reasons have come to the fore, in the light of what we now know. It was the right action undertaken partly for wrong reasons.

Bush has lied on many occasions. He has lied about a lot more the WMD evidence. Screw Iraq, I'm tired of hearing about them. And as far as other countries complaining about america and harboring terrorist. They aren't because we have invaded them. In fact korea is the only place bush has not invaded. 13 countries have american troops in them people. Even sun tzu would call that a bad offensive move.

Bush obsuredity?
www.bushisms.com

Latest bush lies?
http://www.misleader.org/

Bush on healthcare?
http://www.pcactionfund.org/buyingalaw/


This guy has no care for the masses of this society. It wont be long before he is caught on camera say, fuck the us citizens I am better than them. This guy is undereducated, over opinionated, over confident in powers that do not exist. How long do you think we can hold offensives in all the countries we have invaded while harboring a hurt economy and a historic defecit. Even the large replublican supporters have called bush's treatment of the deficit irresponsible.

There is a lot of information on bush out there and not all of it is ranting. In fact a lot of very educated people have done logically sound and valid studies on his plans and his past actions. none of which hold any prospect for helping this country. I've said it once, I'll say it again. I will not live under his rule for another term.

Okay, everyone else is putting their 2 cents in, so here's mine.

The RIAA does not operate in a vaccuum. They wield our laws and our government like a weapon in their war against their very own customers. Corruption in our government (via payoffs and deals) gives the RIAA plenty of backdoors to get in and fulfill, their agenda. Our government has been shown more and more often to listen only to two things: Big Business and money. They don't listen to "we the people" anymore. I welcome any information regarding our government and anything else that can be connected to the RIAA through "six degrees of separation." It helps us to focus on the bigger picture and not be so narrow-minded. It's the narrow-minded ones that end up looking like kooks.

You go George! I'm behind you and so are many others! Don't let a few crabby folks discourage you.

And I also want to say that I am sick and tired of hearing bush supporters come on here and claim that bush has nothing to do with the riaa. it is obsured and pointless to say. If you want to be so myopic as to blindly support someone and purposefully oppose another than you are just as bad as the RIAA, who blindly supports it's record labels and purposefully supports P2P. Bush is our friggin president if you havn't noticed. He makes a lot of decisions. He is at the top of chain and things at the top affect the things at the bottem and right down the middle. If you want to be so myopic, don't read the articles. Just bash the RIAA and see how far you get. Don't hold a gruge against george or anyone else for posting the news on a news forum. I have yet to see any blaitent lies about bush or misleading statements. In fact most people that want to talk about bush simply qoute him and he ends up looking like a real jack ass, because he is. I don't think the boycott needs myopic people that get pissed when they see news on more than just anti-riaa. If you idiots do manage to get that jack ass back in office I wish you the best of luck. I'll be watching from the other side of the border.

Oh and before you rant on me for being so bold, why dont you do some research in to bush's past statements and find out how many people he told to get f'd. How many times did he make assertions as bold as mine. You will find he makes my words look like praise. Good luck with that moron. With any luck maybe you can get him to read a dictionary some time. Maybe even learn the definitions of some of the words and how to pronounce them. Last I checked the isrealians did not exist.

Purfus, are you really Howard Dean? you sound so angry that your head is about to explode. Read some of the thoughtful posts by autodidact and John Carlton02 then peruse your own. You will not enlighten people by name-calling , you won't appear smart, clever or "bold". You just seem to be mad and miserable. Hope you are happier when you are forced to move to the other side of the border.

I'd like to point out that Howard Berman is a democrat, Hilary Rosen was a buddy of the Clinton's and a longtime Democratic Party Lobbyist. Ditto for Cary Sherman. Concerning the BigPigMedia and sneaky Hollywood, it's been known for years that these sleaze bags have pumped plenty of money to this coffers of the Democrats .... To say that the Riaa is a tool of the Republican party is a statement nothing but laughable. Facts are that The Democratic party, Hollywood-media, and the Riaa along with the music industry and fashion are all pigs eating from the same slop bucket...

Maybe Purfus would like to impose a Stalinist system where nothing but Democratic propaganda is tolerated and anybody who doesn't follow in step gets the bullet in the back of the head. Concerning Marxist Hollywood, and their Riaa Communist bullyboys and the traitor ACLU. I say nothing but "Niet"

Haha, I love the opposing systems mentallity. The assumption is always made that if a person does not support one they must then support the other. Myopic and generalized all in one nifty little package. I don't believe I showed support for the democrats at any point in my rant.

As far as me supporting a stalinist way of thought, I don't know where you got that from but I would like to hear your justification. I have never attempted to control people's thought, nor have I ever threatened anyone with a bullet if they do not agree with me. In fact, my rant was about this site's freedom to post articles on more than just the RIAA and how other points of view are relevent. Which is pretty far from stalinist thought. I never said you do not have the right to support bush or that I would threaten your life if you do not. I merely said that I can not understand such support and I have yet to see anyone justify their claims of support. In my opinion bush has acted more like a nazi than any of his opposition. He has even gone as far as to take away our right to publically protest against his administration.

If you would like to continue to attempt to judge my political partty association feel free. It is a free country. I doubt you will ever reach a correct conclusion because I am registerd as independent for lack of a better option. I consider myself associated with none of the money grabbing partties. In fact I think the concept of these different political partties ammounts to nothing more than picking the best performing clown.

I am not miserable, in fact, I am quite happy. Actually there is nothing political that could actually cause me to be miserable.

I also enjoy you comparing me to Howard Dean. Did you just think of the democrat you hate the most? Why did you pick Howard Dean?

Oh and where did you get this tool for a republican partty thing? I can't find it anywhere in the previous posts...

Also I see carlton's point but I don't see it is true. Perhaps they are "playing ball" as you say, but do you seriously think there are fewer terrorist in the world? Do you really think the terrorist woke up one morning and said, "oh the US attacked Iraq and made it in. Well maybe I'll just forego the suicide bombing today. Wouldn't wana piss off bush." Yeah right.

And the only thoughtful thing I see about autodictate's post is the attempt to point out that the democrats are just as bad as the republicans. No surprises there. Does that make the republicans good? No. Just because you are in a room full of murderers, rapist, and theives doesn't mean you will be a good person if you just theive.

The reason I will not stay in this country for another 4 years of bush is because I don't want to deal with the bullshit that grows because of this guys mere presence. I don't want to wake up and read news about the latest stupid stuff this guy has done, nor do I want to wake up and read news on the noble opposition.

You do not need to agree with something for it to be bold, it merely needs to stick out from it's surroundings. Given I was the first one to give you an ol' tomatum it should stick out. The fact that you used my name in your reply means it did stick out. So yes it was bold, and nothing more.

However, while I do think this site should include other political issues besides just RIAA BS. I do not think this is a place to attack other people's political views. I give you permission to attack mine all you want, but I'll sum it up for you in one sentence.

I think they are all a bunch of greedy self centered individuals, that given the opertunity would litterally stand on the back of anyone less fortunate than themselves just to reach the top shelf.

And one final note. THIS IS A POLITICAL SITE. The RIAA is using our political system to get their way. This is deadly obvious. You can not seperate the RIAA from politics because politics are the entire issue. The DMCA kicked off this whole chain of events and it was decided through politics. In fact, it would not be hear if not for the presidential administration at the time. I don't care what partty this administration was, the damn thing was written by special interest groups like the RIAA anyway. The administration was merely paid to push it through. If you do not want to hear about politics you have picked the wrong cause. I find it very respectable that George is willing to share his view on the situation. As do I find it respectable that the bush supporters here are willing to share theirs. Doesn't mean I need to agree with you as it does not mean that you do not need to agree with George. Again I am happy about your stalonist comment. At least now I don't need to feel bad for calling you an idiot

Clinton was impeached for lying about a blow job.

But go to war on the basis of a lie and, whoa, don't question that.

The problem with being "liberal" (which means someone who considers ALL the facts, apparently), is that you continuously have to show your willingness to give in to the other side from time to time to at least try and show some fairness.

Conservatives can stick to a bad idea with no compunction, no logic and no reasonable discussion. That's what being a conservative is.

Personally, if the intelligence department said they had no evidence, why were we told that Iraq was an imminent threat? I saw Powell speak at the UN (on TV, of course). The little animations and everything. Any minute now. Mass destruction.

Having watched the media in this country use the word piracy over and over and over and over for the past two years, constantly taking and illustrating the RIAA's position and to this day overlooking the massive content supplied to the p2p network by the independent community, there is no way in hell that I am going to trust the lying bastards at Microsoft (NBC), Disney (ABC), CBS, Fox or CNN. And I'm not too sure about the Washington Post any more either.

But this part...
"you risk becoming a "fringe" group with continually negative statement/articles/ that state Bush is a liar, our government is evil, we are not a free people, blah, blah, blah."

I said "We went to war on the basis of a lie." I didn't say Bush was the one who lied.

As for our government being evil and we are not a free people...
We are less free than we were ten years ago. We are significantly less free than we were 30 years ago.

And if you can't see that, you are either too young or not willing to accept the reality of the changing world.

This is currently an election year, so it not surprising that negative reports are coming out against the incumbent president, as many individuals may be deciding who they are going to vote for this year. Concerning Mr. Tenet's statement, where there is smoke, there is fire. Which means, in most cases, where something is said, they is probably a shred of truth to it. Now it may be exaggerated either way, and can also be exaggerated by our own perspective and biases. Which could mean, if there was indeed an intentional misrepesentation of truth, that it may have been committed in the past as well. I believe George had full right to post that, and his comments, even warning that he may be accused of "Bush bashing."

Both parties have become increasingly aggressive, and seem to reject and label anything or anyone that seems to be on the "other side." Yes, Howard Berman has sponsored and cosponsored many favoriable bills for the RIAA, as has Lamar Smith. When you come down to it, both parties are corrupt, period. Some, such as Norm Coleman, and Rick Boucher have come out and said something about these issues(though their ideas might not be the best solutions). The majority though, has remained silent, just like all my (former) favorite artists.

There is no doubt in my mind that Kerry, the current frontrunner, could worse on the topics that pertain to this site. When it comes down to it, our political system has become imbedded with corruption, and it's spreading to our society. The longer we allow politicians to utilizing lying as a way to please constituents and avoid negative PR, or remain ambiguous on a topic of interest, the deeper this cancer will spread into the core of our society.

As I mentioned, there is heightened animosity between the parties, and attack anyone who shares slightly similar ideals to the opposite party. Instead of becoming infuriated at others because they do not share your ideals, the parties need to work together for the better good of our country. The answers will not be found in a black and white spectrum, labeled "conservative" and "liberal." To be quite honest, I see the party lines as pretty blurry, and sometimes they are not as distinct as we may think.

Please forgive my forgetfulness, but there was once a man who said(paraphrase): "I may not agree with what you said, but I'll fight to the death so you can say it." We have lost that mentality, now it is "Agree with my opinion or you are a completely discredited idiot."

I find it silly that many insist on labeling an individual as "liberal" or "conservative" soon as they state their opinion on a topic, again only seeing things in black and white. I was raised in a conservative household. I don't consider myself to be a member of either of the major parties, nor any of the third parties, but I listen to what they have to say on the issues that concern me. I am prone to bias, just as we all are, but I think we all need to put forth more effort to toss those biases away and focus on judging politicians on an individual basis, and not because of party affiliation.

~Summary~

Its an election year, so ther is negative coverage for the incumbent president, if Kerry is elected, he will probably get the same in his reelection year.

There are good, bad, and silent on both party sides.

Both parties are corrupt, party lines are blurry. Many seem to accept all the lies that come from politicians, which are becoming imbued in our society.

Parties have become aggressive and attack each other for the smallest thing, many need to learn to contemplate the individual over the party.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=patriot

"One who loves, supports, and defends one's country."
There is a difference between lemmings and patriots I hope you know....but anyways, if there was something about lying and whatever about liberals, I would post it.....supporting one party blindly is stupid. How many times have various ppl on this site support Norm coleman? I support him for some stuff even tho I don't support bush. So why don't you just worry about passing good laws and stop following ppl around like lemmings.

Agreed Suikiogiaz.

and dave....

"Conservatives can stick to a bad idea with no compunction, no logic and no reasonable discussion. That's what being a conservative is."

Conservatives would likely say something similar about liberals. I have tried many times to discuss things with liberal friends, and when it comes to George W. Bush, there is no nuance, no real discussion, no rationality -- it simply devolves into name calling and ranting. (Just as you have gone to name calling, by defining conservatives as completely insensible and not open to facts or rational analysis.)

Actually, by any rational definition, George W Bush is not, on balance, a conservative. His domestic policy is not, and even arguably his foreign policy is not conservative, because conservatives tend to be a bit more isolationist and laissez faire.

This Bush-hatred preceded the war, by the way. The canards they would use before the war were things like global warming, rejection of Kyoto treaty, things like that.

Certain people seem to hate Bush first, and tack on a reason later.

"that state Bush is a liar, our government is evil, we are not a free people"

What part of that is not true?

War is about money.

"Conservatives can stick to a bad idea with no compunction, no logic and no reasonable discussion. That's what being a conservative is."

Holy cow. Hey conservatives, you are all idiots!

Personally, I consider myself a liberal but the wacky liberals are driving me away. That being said, I can't vote for www.awolbush.com : )

my parents are still thinking bush is great. i dont think anyone from the major 2 parties is great. i think dems and repubs are the crappiest.

The war was only a publicity stunt anyway. Bush got the country so worked up about terrorism after 9/11, he had to find a scapegoat to blame. Immediately before the war, the inteligence service was entirely dedicated to finding a link, however tenuous, between Saddam and Al Quieda, so the WTC and Saddam hatred could be combined.

>>>Conservatives can stick to a bad idea with no compunction, no logic and no reasonable discussion. That's what being a conservative is.

>>>Conservatives can stick to a bad idea with no compunction, no logic and no reasonable discussion. That's what being a conservative is.

Sorry, I don't know what happened with my last post.

Anyway, I was saying that some people view liberals in the same way you just mentioned conservatives.

Also, I seriously wonder how you think trashing some of the people who support you will help out your main cause in any way.

I just find it interesting on some programs (such as Hannety and Colmes) that Hannety (and his little girl friend Ann Coulter) labels anyone who speaks out against Bush as unAmerican and Unpatriotic and thats sSSSSOOO insulting.

I'll leave you with this little quote, you decide.

Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the president
or any other public official, save exactly to the degree in which he himself stands
by the country. It is patriotic to support him insofar as he efficiently serves the country.
It is unpatriotic not to oppose him to the exact extent that by inefficiency or otherwise
he fails in his duty to stand by the country.

In either event, it is unpatriotic not to tell the truth, whether about the president or
anyone else"
- Theodore Roosevelt, 26th President of the United States

Ok I lied ONE MORE for ya THEN you decide LOL.

I changed pollution laws in favor of the power and oil companies and made Texas the most polluted state in the Union.
I replaced Los Angeles with Houston as the most smog-ridden city in America.
I cut taxes and bankrupted Texas government to the tune of billions in borrowed money.
I set the record for the most executions by any Governor in American history.
I became U.S. President after losing the popular vote by over 500,000 votes with the help of major Enron money and my father's appointments to the Supreme Court.
Accomplishments as President:

I attacked and overtook two countries.
I spent the U.S. surplus and effectively bankrupted the U.S. Treasury.
I shattered the record for the largest annual deficit in U.S.history.
I set an economic record for most private bankruptcies filed in any 12-month period.
I set the all-time record for the biggest drop in the history of the U.S.stock market.
My record for environmental issues is the least of my concerns.
I am the first president in U.S. history to enter office with criminal record.
I set the all-time record for most days on vacation in any one-year period.
After taking-off the entire month of August, I then presided over the worst security failure in U.S. history.
I am supporting development of a "Tactical Bunker Buster" nuke, a WMD.
I am getting our troops killed, under the lie of Saddam's procurement of Yellow Cake Nuke WMD components, then blaming the lie on our British friends.
I set the record for most campaign fund-raising trips by a U.S. president.
In my first year in office over 2-million Americans lost their jobs and that trend continues every month.
I set the all-time record for most foreclosures in a 12-month period.
I appointed more convicted criminals to administration than any president in U.S. history.
I set the record for least amount of press conferences than any president since the advent of television.
I signed more laws and executive orders effectively amending or ignoring the Constitution than any president in history (e.g. The Patriot Act).
I presided over the biggest energy crisis in U.S. history and refused to intervene when corruption involving the oil industry was revealed.
I presided over the highest gasoline prices in U.S. history and refused to use national reserves as past presidents have done.
I have cut health care benefits for war veterans and support a cut in duty benefits for active duty troops and their families -- in wartime.
I have set the all-time record for most people worldwide to simultaneously protest me in public venues (15 million people) shattering the record for protest against any person in the history of mankind.
I've dissolved more international treaties than any president in U.S.history.
I've made my presidency the most secretive and unaccountable of any in U.S. history. I'm proud that the members of my cabinet are the richest of any administration in U.S. history.
My "poorest millionaire," Condoleeza Rice, has a Chevron oil tanker named after her.
I am the first president in U.S. history to have almost all 50 states of the Union simultaneously suffer massive financial crisis.
I presided over the biggest corporate stock market fraud of any market in any country in history.
I am the first president in U.S. history to order a pre-emptive attack and the military occupation of a sovereign nation, and I did so against the will of the United Nations and the world community.
I created the largest government department bureaucracy in the history of the United States.
I set the all-time record for biggest annual budget spending increases, more than any president in history.
I am the first president in U.S. history to have the United Nations remove the U.S. from the Human Rights Commission.
I am the first president in U.S. history to have the United Nations remove the U.S. from the Elections Monitoring Board.
I removed more checks and balances, and have the least amount of congressional oversight than any presidential administration in U.S. S. history.
I rendered the entire United Nations viewpoints irrelevant.
I withdrew the U.S. from the World Court of Law.
I refused to allow inspectors access to U.S. "prisoners of war" (detainees) and thereby have refused to abide by the Geneva Convention.
I am the first president in history to refuse United Nations election inspectors (during the 2002 U.S. election).
I am the all-time U.S. and world record-holder for receiving the most corporate campaign donations.
My largest lifetime campaign contributor, and one of my best friends, (Kenneth Lay, former CEO of Enron Corporation) presided over the largest corporate bankruptcy fraud in U.S. history.

My political party used the Enron private jets and corporate attorneys to assure my success with the U.S. Supreme Court during my election decision.
I have spent more money on polls and focus groups than any president in U.S. history.
I garnered the most sympathy for the U.S. after the World Trade Center attacks and less than a year later made the U.S. the most resented country in the world, possibly the largest failure of diplomacy in World history.
I am actively working on a policy of "disengagement" creating the most hostile of Israel-Palestine relations in at least 30 years.
I am first president in history to have a majority of Europeans (71%) view my presidency as the biggest threat to world peace and security.
I am the first U.S. president in history to have the people of South Korea more threatened by the U.S. than by their immediate neighbour, North Korea.
I changed the U.S. policy to allow convicted criminals to be awarded government contracts.
I set an all-time record for the number of administration appointees who violated U.S. law by not selling their huge personal investments in corporations bidding for U.S. contracts.
I failed to fulfill my pledge to capture Osama Bin Laden, dead or alive.
I failed to capture the anthrax killer who tried to murder the leaders of our country at the U.S. Capitol Building. Even after 18 months I have no leads and no credible suspects.
In the past 18 months following the World Trade Center attack I have successfully prevented any public investigation into the biggest security failure in the history of the United States.
I removed more freedoms and civil liberties for Americans than any president in U.S. history.
In a little over two years, I created the most divided country in decades, possibly the most divided since the Civil War.
I entered my office with the strongest economy in U.S. history and have turned every single economic category downward -- all in less than two years.


Records and References:

I have at least one conviction for drunk driving in Maine.
My Texas driving record has been erased and is not available.
I was AWOL from the National Guard. I refuse to take a drug test or even answer any questions about drug use.
All records of my tenure as Governor of Texas are now in my father's library, sealed, and unavailable for public view.
All records of SEC investigations into insider trading or bankrupt companies are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public view.
All records or minutes from meetings that I, or my Vice-President, attended regarding public energy policy are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public review.


Please consider my experience when voting in 2004

Hahahahaha,

Yeah I wana vote for that guy......

I broke my lifelong position of being an anarchist and voted in the GORE v. bush fiasco....

So much for the notion of your vote counting...

Diebold has it all figured out I'm sure...

Oh, and I might as well wade in on this other colloquy.

This site allows you to say what you want. You like and approve of Bush? You get to say it. You dislike and don't approve of Bush? You get to say that too.

As for George, he works hard to keep this place fresh, relevant, contemporary, and worth coming to...and I personally take my hat off to him.

I am with George on what he says and stand behind him completely.

Look, wanna know where I stand? I think little Bush ("the Shrub"...aka "arbustolito" ) is the worst president we have ever had. He is ignorant...he is meanspirited....and has proved to be disastrous for this country.

Why do I say he is ignorant and meanspirited? Well...let's read what GW has said in his own words...

[please note...these are reportedly the words of George W. Bush...not mine..and forgive the profanity...but they are words used by bush."

"You fucking son of a bitch. I saw what you wrote. We're not going to forget this." —George W. Bush to writer and editor Al Hunt, in front of his wife and kids, 1988

"I'm a uniter not a divider. That means when it comes time to sew up your chest cavity, we use stitches as opposed to opening it up." -- Bush, on David Letterman, March 2, 2000. (the audience booed)

"There ought to be limits to freedom. We're aware of this [web] site, and this guy is just a garbage man, that's all he is." --George Jr., discussing a web site that parodies him ..namely, gwbush.com

"They want the federal government controlling Social Security like it's some kind of federal program."—Debate in St. Charles, Mo., Nov. 2, 2000

"Natural gas is hemispheric. I like to call it hemispheric in nature because it is a product that we can find in our neighborhoods."—Austin, Texas, Dec. 20, 2000

"I think if you know what you believe, it makes it a lot easier to answer questions. I can't answer your question."—Reynoldsburg, Ohio, Oct. 4, 2000

"The most important job is not to be governor, or first lady in my case."-Pella, Iowa, as quoted by the San Antonio Express-News, Jan. 30, 2000

"Rarely is the question asked: Is our children learning?"-Florence, S.C., Jan. 11, 2000

"It's clearly a budget. It's got a lot of numbers in it."--Reuters, May 5, 2000

"The great thing about America is everybody should vote."-Austin, Texas, Dec. 8, 2000


"The dictator of Iraq is making his choice" – George W. Bush, regarding the impending war with Iraq. Feb, 6, 2003

"The war on terror involves Saddam Hussein because of the nature of Saddam Hussein, the history of Saddam Hussein, and his willingness to terrorize himself." - Grand Rapids, Mich., Jan. 29, 2003

"You're back here with my people. You're back here with the tequila drinkers, yeah. What you need is to go up there and make a little whoopee with the tequila drinkers, get to know them better." - G.W. Bush from Journeys With George by Alexandra Pelosi, debuted on HBO Nov. 5, 2002

"When I was coming up it was a dangerous world, and we knew exactly who the they were. It was us versus them, and it was clear who them was." - G.W. Bush from Journeys With George by Alexandra Pelosi, debuted on HBO Nov. 5, 2002

"I can't hear you because I can't see." - G.W. Bush from Journeys With George by Alexandra Pelosi, debuted on HBO Nov. 5, 2002

"There's an old saying in Tennessee -- I know it's in Texas, it's probably in Tennessee --that says, fool me once, shame on ... shame on you. Fool me ... You can't get fooled again." - G.W. Bush quoted by the Baltimore Sun - Oct 6, 2002

"We need to understand if you let kindling build up and there's a lightning strike, you're going get yourself a big fire," - G.W. Bush in a lame attempt to make deforestation look like a way to stop forest fires, - Aug 22, 2002

"I know in the fall of an election year, the tendency is to focus more on scoring political points than on making progress." - G.W. Bush after a golf game with Bush Sr. and just before going on a massive, multi-state, GOP fundraising campaign. Kennebunkport, Maine. -August 3rd, 2002

"Sometimes things aren't exactly black and white when it comes to accounting procedures ... I still haven't figured it out completely." - Bush when asked for details about his dealings with Harken Energy Corp., of which he was on the audit committee. G.W. Bush's father was in office in 1990 when he sold his Harken stock and the SEC did not pursue a case. -July 8th, 2002

"Do you have blacks too?" - Bush ignorantly asked Brazil's President Fernando Henrique Cardoso. Reported by the reputable German publication Der Spiegel. Rumor has it, Condoleza Rice interupted the president and explained in brief the African history in Brazil.

"Washington is unfortunately the kind of place where second-guessing has become second nature," - G.W. Bush responding to suggestions he had warnings of September 11th before the attacks. Washington D.C., May 17th, 2002

"After all, a week ago, there were — Yasser Arafat was boarded up in his building in Ramallah, a building full of, evidently, German peace protestors and all kinds of people. They're now out. He's now free to show leadership, to lead the world." - G.W. Bush. Washington D.C., May 2nd, 2002

"This foreign policy stuff is a little frustrating." - G.W. Bush as quoted by the New York Daily News, April 23rd, 2002

"I've got a tool, and that's called a veto" - G.W. Bush regarding working with congress on the budget. Washington Post, April 17th, 2002

"And so, in my State of the -- my State of the Union -- or state -- my speech to the nation, whatever you want to call it, speech to the nation -- I asked Americans to give 4,000 years --4,000 hours over the next -- the rest of your life -- of service to America."" - G.W. Bush. April 9th, 2002. Reported by the San Francisco Gate (among others)

"I made up my mind that Saddam needs to go,"- G.W. Bush to British Prime Minister, Tony Blair, April 5th, 2002

"Sometimes when I sleep at night I think of 'Hop on Pop."- G.W. Bush speaking on educating children, April 2nd, 2002

"There's nothing more deep than recognizing Israel's right to exist. That's the most deep thought of all. ... I can't think of anything more deep than that right."-March 13th, 2000, Washington, D.C.

"I understand that the unrest in the Middle East creates unrest throughout the region."-March 13th, 2000, Washington, D.C.

"{waves hello}"- G.W. Bush waves to the blind musician, Stevie Wonder, as reported by the Washington Post, March 6th, 2002

"It also makes sense for New York State to have a governor whose phone calls will be returned from the White House." -February 2002, at a fundraiser for New York's Republican governor, George Pataki.

"It's an encroachment on the executive branch's ability to conduct business," —Regarding Enron, January 28th, 2002

"Mother, I should have listened to you. Always chew your pretzels before you swallow." —January 14th, 2002

"Not over my dead body will they raise your taxes!" —January 11th, 2002

"This is not an instant gratification war" —November 2nd, 2001

"I am here to make an announcement that this Thursday, ticket counters and airplanes will fly out of Ronald Reagan airport." —October 3rd, 2001 at Reagan International Airport in Washington, D.C.

"When I take action, I'm not going to fire a $2 million missile at a $10 empty tent and hit a camel in the butt. It's going to be decisive."—September 19th, 2001

''I know what I believe. I will continue to articulate what I believe and what I believe—I believe what I believe is right."—Rome, July 22, 2001

"It's my honor to speak to you as the leader of your country. And the great thing about America is you don't have to listen unless you want to." — Speaking to recently sworn in immigrants on Ellis Island, July 10, 2001

"Well, it's an unimaginable honor to be the president during the Fourth of July of this country. It means what these words say, for starters. The great inalienable rights of our country. We're blessed with such values in America. And I--it's--I'm a proud man to be the nation based upon such wonderful values."—Visiting the Jefferson Memorial, Washington, D.C., July 2, 2001

"We spent a lot of time talking about Africa, as we should. Africa is a nation that suffers from incredible disease."—Gothenburg, Sweden, June 14, 2001

''I had no idea we had so many weapons, ...what do we need them for?'' — George W. Bush, stunned when told the extent of the U.S. nuclear arsenal, Newsweek, June 25, 2001

"It's amazing I won. I was running against peace, prosperity, and incumbency." — George W. Bush, June 14, 2001. Speaking to Swedish Prime Minister Goran Perrson, unaware that a live television camera was still rolling.

"If a person doesn't have the capacity that we all want that person to have, I suspect hope is in the far distant future, if at all."—Remarks to the Hispanic Scholarship Fund Institute, Washington, D.C., May 22, 2001

"For every fatal shooting, there were roughly three non-fatal shootings. And, folks, this is unacceptable in America. It's just unacceptable. And we're going to do something about it."—Philadelphia, May 14, 2001

"There's no question that the minute I got elected, the storm clouds on the horizon were getting nearly directly overhead." - Washington, D.C., May 11, 2001

"It's a school full of so-called at-risk children. It's how we, unfortunately, label certain children. It means basically they can't learn. ... It's one of the best schools in Houston." —George W. Bush speaking about KIPP Academy in Houston, Texas.

"Whatever it took to help Taiwan defend theirself."—On how far we'd be willing to go to defend Taiwan, Good Morning America, April 25, 2001

"First, we would not accept a treaty that would not have been ratified, nor a treaty that I thought made sense for the country." —George W. Bush, on the Kyoto accord, April 24, 2001

"I've coined new words, like, misunderstanding and Hispanically." —George W. Bush, who meant to say "misunderestimated"

"They misunderestimated me."—Bentonville, Ark., Nov. 6, 2000

"I know how hard it is for you to put food on your family."—Greater Nashua, N.H., Chamber of Commerce, Jan. 27, 2000