Listen to audio of the Grokster proceedings.

http://www.eff.org/IP/P2P/MGM_v_Grokster/

When hell freezes over.

Vicarious liability is a legal concept that means that a party may be held responsible for injury or damage, when in reality they were not actively involved in the incident. Parties that may be charged with vicarious liability are generally in a supervisory role over the person or parties personally responsible for the injury/damage. The implications of vicarious liability are that the party charged is responsible for the actions of their subordinates. - http://www.onlinelawyersource.com/criminal_law/vicarious_liability.html

I saw some limited video of Frackman (atty for MPAA) arguing before the three judge panel...he seems to be an ignorant hack to me....in fact, maybe he should be renamed "Hack-man" (apologies to Gene Hackman). If this atty was the best that big media could conjure up with all their money....that's sad...

The first hearing before Judge Wilson demonstrated the lack of court room experience of Ramos and Frackman. The RIAA lawyers don't have the slightest clue how ill-prepared, bumbling and sputtering with self-righteousness they appear. The RIAA should have changed horses. The day will come when the RIAA appears in court unable to bring proof of ownership paperwork (copyright forms). They are aware of that deficiency, hence the extraordinary extralegal efforts: intimidation tactics, suing students, and click wrap licenses.

Typical of the music industry, Ramos started using the terms
"pirated, theft, stealing, and counterfeit"...Judge Noonan (I have really appreciated him in this hearing)....stopped him and called those terms "harsh" and "abusive" and noted that Ramos was "calling" it theft...properly pointed out since it is not....

For those of you who have felt I have been a bit obsessive on the use of these terms, especially "piracy"...looks like the Judge seems to agree with me, and he stopped atty Ramos when he started that business.

Ramos had to backpedal on his use of "theft" in front of the panel when Judge Noonan calling him on it.

In just a few minutes after this...Ramos said that he "may have used the word theft"....HUH????? You just said it Ramos...not hours ago...GEEZ

Ramos also screwed up and misidentified Judge Noonan, by calling him Norris or something.

Carey Ramos( lol, or is it Cary Sue Ramos) said this...
"The copyright monopoly is very limited....It is a very weak right. It is an ephemeral right..."

The judge pointed out that the P2P doesn't have the ability to monitor files "that ability no longer exists in the system"....

Ramos had to admit it on the record....that the system no longer has a registration system...

Ramos was EXTREMELY nervous...his voice was quivering, he was making mistakes...lol...am laughing my ass off listening to him....

Fred Lohmann ROCKS!!!! I'm listening to him now...calm, professional,reasonable...has a great grasp of the issues and the laws...

I bought a gun from Smith & Wesson--- I bought a knife from Case

I shot and stabbed a person...Sue the makers of the gun and the knife....

Okay not really technological tool...but the conclusions are the same.. I used my tools in a manner not intended by the manufacturer ...yes they knew I could use my tool improperly but their were plenty of other people who benefited from the proper use of the tool.

actually (and I own a S&W 357 magnum) and several kinds of lives...these are technological tools....

A lot of the advances in all kinds of machines and in metallurgy...grew out of the techniques using in forging knives, "hammer welding", machining parts and rifling in barrels...so it was an even better analogy than you knew!

Listening to these idiots in court makes me wonder how the hell that these people got where they are.