pi·ra·cy ( P ) Pronunciation Key (pr-s)
n. pl. pi·ra·cies

1. a. Robbery committed at sea.
b. A similar act of robbery, as the hijacking of an airplane.
2. The unauthorized use or reproduction of copyrighted or patented material: software piracy.
3. The operation of an unlicensed, illegal radio or television station

When all else fails change the rules

R

You have got to be kidding.

Aye Matey, pull up abroad, were going to raid the USS RIAA.

Sic' em Code!

well we've got to coin a catch phrase for the RIAA and make it stick. how about NAZI

leflaw. did you receive it?

Let's fight fire with fire then:

r-i-a-a ( P )

1. a. distributor for major music lable music, controls most of the music industry.
b. An organization that fights against any kind of technology for the purpose of protecting it's business and marketing styles, even if they are well out of date.

Any additions? add them to the "Definition of the TRUE RIAA"

r-i-a-a - d-r-o-i-d ( P )

1. a. One who signs on to the R-I-A-A hoping to make it in the music industry, without any idea of how the music industry, or r-i-a-a works
b. (also falls under a) anybody who will take all of the words from the r-i-a-a as truth, without fully researching the issues from non-r-i-a-a sources

WTF?
How about this one

RIAA -
1. Recording Industries of America Association
2. NAZI
3. a. Illegal monoply
b. a simmilar act of evilness, takes innocent children and grandparrents to court

lol

RIAA
1) Recording Industries of America

2) Special (Corporate) Interest Group bent on controlling all music, especially those from independent sources

3)Raping Intelligent Artists Annually (or Anally)

4) Ridiculous Industry of Antiquities ASSociation.

5) Corporate Interest group that takes an ass-backwards approach to technology to keep their fat pockets lined with gold.

Redefined? Are you saying that they changed the definition recently? Because my American Heritage dictionary is about 20 years old and it says: Pirate: 3. To make use of or reproduce (another's work) illicitly. My Black's Law Dictionary (5th Edition) has a date of 1979 on it and says: Piracy: The term is also applied to the illicit reprinting or reproduction of a copyrighted book or print or to unlawful plagiarism from it. To suggest that this definition has something to do with the RIAA is wacky.

The definitons are slightly different, the "new" definition doesn't make the distinction between legal, aqnd illegal copies, just states unauthorized. This is a problem. Ripping a CD to your HD for personal use is not authorized, but it is legal. Does that make me a pirate?

DarkhorseX, that definiton sums them up perfectly.

"Ripping a CD to your HD for personal use is not authorized, but it is legal."

AHRA explicitly authorizes ripping cd's on many HD's. For the remaining HD's, I think you could consider ripping to be authorized under general fair use principles.

"I think you could consider ripping to be authorized under general fair use principles."

What about the companies that have CDs that say that they don't authorize it though? I've seen some CDs that say this.

If you see a CD with something like that written on it DO NOT BUY IT! Just let is sit on the store shelf collecting dust. Chances are it is not even a real CD.
(contains DRM!)

Shmoo, of Electric Gypsy
Support Local and Independent Music!

I wonder who payed them to do that...

"What about the companies that have CDs that say that they don't authorize it though? I've seen some CDs that say this."

What exactly does it say on the CD? Can you supply the language?

"I wonder who payed them to do that... "

Oh my. Language is not static, it is constantly in flux. Dictionaries change to accomodate the way real people use words. I wonder if dictionary.com recently changed their definition or if Ron R just read this defintion for the first time. : )

Aye a pirates life fer me woohoo!!

years ago they tried that on vinyl not to be play on the radio a judge threw it out he said they brought the product they can use it anyway they want to so they can put anything they want on a cover you brought it you own it you can do what you want with it

Dictionaries are not law

I did a long rant a while back on the use of the term piracy, in reference to unauthorized reproduction of copyrighted goods...It seems idiots have been doing this since around 1668...

to wit:
http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/archive/dvd-discuss/msg07476.html
"But is it possible that the term 'pirate' was used
by the established printers of the Stationers'
Company, under Crown license, who were referring to the
new publishers who were protected under the Statute of
Anne? The timing is about the same time. As today,
there was a dispute about rights, and the one with the
money and power was railing against the newcomers who
were destroying their business? And using a derogatory
term is part and parcel of the urging of the mob to
burn the competitors' offices?

I think often one side called the nautical crews, approvingly,
"privateers" operating "under a letter of marque" and the
other called them "pirates" or "buccaneers" (a term that
dates from about 1690 and also means now "an unscrupulous
adventurer, esp. in politics or business") (Sir Walter Raleigh?)"

now...fort he history of the INCORRECT USE OF PIRATE AND PIRACY REGARDING COPYRIGHT VIOLATIONS...

"
Although I iniatially suspected that "the London pirate king" was called
by that title in a reference to Gilbert & Sullivan's "Pirates of
Penzance", the OED indicates that this term is much older.

(Oxford English Dictionary, 2nd Edition)
"4. fig.

a. One who appropriates or reproduces without leave, for his own benefit,
a literary, artistic, or musical composition, or an idea or invention of
another, or, more generally, anything that he has no right to; esp. one
who infringes on the copyright of another.

1668 J. Hancock Brooks' String of Pearls (Notice at end), Some dishonest
Booksellers, called Land-Pirats, who make it their practise to steal
Impressions of other mens Copies.
1701 De Foe True-born Eng. Explan. Pref. (1703) 6 Its being Printed again
and again by Pyrates.
1709 Steele & Addison Tatler No. 101 P1 These Miscreants are a Set of
Wretches we Authors call Pirates, who print any Book,..a soon as it
stolen Goods) at a cheaper Rate.
1837 Lockhart Scott lvii. (1839) VII. 117 A recent alarm about one of
Ballantyne's workmen..transmitting proof sheets of Peveril while at press
to some American pirate.
1861 W. Fairbairn Address Brit. Assoc., There are abuses in the working of
the patent law.., and protection is often granted to pirates and
impostors, to the detriment of real inventors.
1887 Shakespeariana VI. 105 In 1599 two of them [Shakspere's Sonnets] were
printed by the pirate Jaggard. "

To give a sense of perspective, William Kidd was executed in 1701 and
Edward Teach was killed in 1718. "
-------------------------------------------
So, apparently since at least the 17th century (circa 1668 AD) idiots have been IMPROPERLY using the terms pirates and piracy when they are talking about copyright infringement.

It reminds me of that idiot Cristobal Colon (i.e. Christopher Columbus) who was SURE he found a shortcut to India, and thus, insisted on calling the Native inhabitants, "Indians" because, OF COURSE he could not be wrong...and now, we have two groups of people in the world being referred to as "Indians"...one, inhabitants and natives of INDIA, and the other, Native Americans.

So, just because some retard, around 300 plus years ago, started using the words "pirat" (pirate) or "pyrat"..or other spelling derivations, and/or "piracy"/ "pyracy"...should modern people continue this stupidity>?

I think not...as for me, since all this deals with alleged LEGAL violations...I'll stick with the LEGAL, US definiton of pirates...
USC Title 18,Chapter 81, Section 1652...

CITE 18 USC Sec. 1652 01/26/98
TITLE 18 - CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE
PART I - CRIMES
CHAPTER 81 - PIRACY AND PRIVATEERING
Sec. 1652. Citizens as pirates
Whoever, being a citizen of the United States, commits any murder
or robbery, or any act of hostility against the United States, or
against any citizen thereof, on the high seas, under color of any
commission from any foreign prince, or state, or on pretense of
authority from any person, is a pirate, and shall be imprisoned for
life."

"they can put anything they want on a cover you brought it you own it you can do what you want with it"

Good point. The promo copies that say you can't sell them are not legally binding according to most lawyers.

A dictionary doesn't mean anything. As long as the law still says that piracy isn't copying stuff, everyone will ignore the dictionary's definition.

yuck, scary... just another instance where the book 1984 comes to mind.. redefining words according to agendas and the like

you're right undeath..
and notice...the number one definition or preferred one is :
"1. a. Robbery committed at sea. "

and, as for Promo...I say call 'em "Bromo" cause you'll need a bromoseltzer after listening to those indigestible, gas laden tunes

The handwriting is on the wall about the RIAA...
http://images2.dmusic.com/users/c/o/d/codewarrior/19045.jpg

"As long as the law still says that piracy isn't copying stuff, everyone will ignore the dictionary's definition."

Actually, the only people ignoring the dictionary definition are all on this web site. : ) As I noted above, it is even included in Black's Law Dictionary, which is the premier law dictionary used by lawyers. Bitching about the used of the word piracy in the context of infringement is tilting at windmills because it is here to stay and is considered acceptable by authoritative sources.

mroop....as an attorney, you should realize why I continue my fight about the use of piracy...since the RIAA is talking about a LEGAL case, we should talk about legal terms..and piracy and pirates are defined by the US Code, Title 18, Chapter 81, Section 1652...and I have confronted some big name record execs over use of piracy, I wrote the DCIA and got a very nice email back that they appreciated the correction...and have written several letters to various hard copy papers, TechTV, and yes, the RIAA....none of them can argue that I am right about what the law has defined as piracy...
and you will note I give a fairly decent historical context to this wrongful use of the word "piracy" when referring to copyright violations dating back to 1668...

Like the notion of Earth being flat...just because a group of people have held a wrong idea for centuries..doesn't mean I cannot counterbalance their insanity with the facts....

"in my outrageous (not humble) opinion

RIAA (pronounced ree-uh)
v. pl. RIAAs

1. a. Using the court system as a business model in lieu of competing in a free market.
b. A similar act of using a court system to sue boys and girls for profit.
c. Any use of the legal system to maintain a position of monopoly.
2. The control exerted upon major news media to keep it from reporting on boys and girls being sued for profit.
3. An exclamation or ejaculation in anger or in protest of the Recording Industry Association of America (see also DIE RIAA!).

"mroop....as an attorney, you should realize why I continue my fight about the use of piracy...since the RIAA is talking about a LEGAL case, we should talk about legal terms"

Well, I hear what you're saying, but since it deemed acceptable by Black's then I would say it is OK to use piracy in reference to copyright infringement. That doesn't change the fact that the RIAA uses the word because it has connotations that serve them well.

"Like the notion of Earth being flat...just because a group of people have held a wrong idea for centuries..doesn't mean I cannot counterbalance their insanity with the facts...."

And let me add that this is a different issue - one of fact. When people use a word incorrectly for long enough then the use of the word becomes correct - that is how language changes and evolves. Shakespeare is hard to understand for modern day readers because language has changed so much - it changes because of the way people use it.

But wait! I will agree that the RIAA would be more correct if they used the term copyright infringement instead of piracy. But I also think they can use piracy and get away with it - technically speaking.

Here's what webster has to say:

Main Entry: pi·ra·cy
Pronunciation: 'pI-r&-sE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -cies
Etymology: Medieval Latin piratia, from Late Greek peirateia, from Greek peiratEs pirate
1 : an act of robbery on the high seas; also : an act resembling such robbery
2 : robbery on the high seas
3 : the unauthorized use of another's production, invention, or conception especially in infringement of a copyright

dictionary.com didnt "chang" the definition recently. I noticed this a WHILE ago and was saying it all along.

the dictionary.com definition isnt a legal one however, and codewarriors research would apply in that case.

http://dictionary.law.com/
"piracy
n. the crime of robbery of ships or boats on the oceans. "

From 'Lectric Law Library
http://www.lectlaw.com/def2/p050.htm
* Piracy (By U.S. Citizen) *

PIRACY (BY U.S. CITIZEN) - Whoever, being a citizen of the U.S., commits any murder or robbery, or any act of hostility against the U.S., or against any citizen thereof, on the high seas, under color of any commission from any foreign prince, or state, or on pretense of authority from any person, is a pirate, and shall be imprisoned for life. 18 USC '

From International Law Dictionary :
http://www.august1.com/pubs/dict/p.htm

"piracy: Piracy is "(a) any illegal acts of violence or detention, or any act of depredation, committed for private ends by the crew or the passengers of a private ship or a private aircraft, and directed: (i) on the high seas, against another ship or aircraft, or against persons or property on board such ship or aircraft; [or] (ii) against a ship, aircraft, persons or property in a place outside the jurisdiction of any State; (b) any act of voluntary participation in the operation of a ship or of an aircraft with knowledge of facts making it a pirate ship or aircraft; [or] (c) any act of inciting or of intentionally facilitating an act described in subparagraph (a) or (b)." (Source: United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, Art. 101.) "

********************************
So, it looks like it is NOT just us folks on the board who define piracy properly....

Oh, and since you like Black's Law Dictionary....I pulled mine off the shelf..
Sixth Edition... page 795...second column...
first and preferable definition....

"Piracy. Those acts of robbery and depredation upon the high seas which, if committed on land, would have amounted to a felony. Brigandage committed on the sea or from the sea. Whoever on the high seas, commits the crime of piracy as defined by the law of nations, as is afterwards brought into or found in the United States, shall be imprisoned for life. 18 U.S.C.A. Section 1651. "

This is the first, main, and preferable definition. For completeness sake they also add that retarded silliness about copyright infringement, much like dictionaries started adding improper English like "ain't" because it found its way into common parlance.

Our definition is the first offered...is the main and preferable definiton, and is the one defined and identified as the crime of piracy under the US Code.

Name ONE RIAA lawsuit brought under Title 18, Chapter 81, Section 1652..."Citizens as Pirates" in which they are alleging copyright infringement.

Go to the RIAA website and download the sample complaints (which I have) and you will not find them filing lawsuits citing "piracy"...., nor identifying those charged as being "pirates"...
the DMCA does not use the word PIRACY or PIRATES once...

So....just because friggin' retards are using the term wrongfully, does not mean we should accept their intentionally misleading rhetoric !!!!!!!!!

Come to think of it I have an old webster from 1974 that defines piracy as:

1. Robbery on the high seas or in the air.
2. The unauthorizes use of anothers production or invention.

I have an older dictionary from 1961 called "The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language". It doesn't define piracy but it defines pirate as:

1. One who robs at sea or plunders the land from the sea without commision from a sovereign nation.
2. One who makes use of or reproduces the work, especially literary work of another, without permission or illicitly.

I have agreed RETARDS AND GRAMMATICAL MISFITS HAVE USED THE TERM WRONGFULLY SINCE 1668 AD AT LEAST....I JUST REFUSE USE BASTARDIZED SPEECH BECAUSE SOME CEREBRAL MIDGET IN 1668 STARTED IT...AND MODERN RETARDS AT THE RIAA WANT TO PERPETUATE PEOPLE'S MISUNDERSTAND OF THIS WORD'S PROPER USAGE.

SO...IF THE WORD SHYSTER BECOMES SYNONYMOUS WITH ATTORNEY...WE SHALL HAVE A NEW AND PROPER WORD FOR ALL ATTORNEYS

I SHALL START THE CHANGE IN THE LANGUAGE NOW....
ALL WHO WISH TO USE THE TERM SHYSTER MEANING ONE LICENSED TO PRACTICE LAW...RAISE YOUR HAND....
COUNTING....1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9...........
1,000,000.......

TYPO...SHOULD HAVE READ...
REFUSE TO USE BASTARDIZED SPEECH....
"so it goes"...Kurt Vonnegut....

"RETARDS AND GRAMMATICAL MISFITS HAVE USED THE TERM WRONGFULLY SINCE 1668 AD AT LEAST"

What was once wrongful is now correct and acceptable. : )

"For completeness sake they also add that retarded silliness about copyright infringement"

You are implying a motive to Black's without any supporting evidence. But we do agree that Black's does define piracy as equating to copyright infringement.

I see Black's also has this: "Shyster: A trickish knave; one who carries on any business or profession in a deceitful, tricky or dishonest way." So shyster is not solely applicable to lawyers. : )

http://images2.dmusic.com/users/c/o/d/codewarrior/19051.jpg

mroop...I do apologize for the shyster comment.....

And I do believe Black's added the copyright infringement piracy nonsense because people are using it nowadays...but it is good to see they are using the PROPER definition first and foremost ))))))))))

And, one time during a deposition, the opposing counsel...on videotape, kept calling me a term I didn't appreciate...so I started calling him "Shyster..(and his lastname"...he stopped the tape...and we came to an off camera agreement that he would use the proper professional term in referring to me...

ps...on the

mages2.dmusic.com/users/c/o/d/codewar rior/19051.jpg

you have to manually take the break tag < BR > off, if you just click on it and don't do a copy/paste of the URL

"mroop...I do apologize for the shyster comment....."

That's OK, I don't take offense.

"And I do believe Black's added the copyright infringement piracy nonsense because people are using it nowadays...but it is good to see they are using the PROPER definition first and foremost"

I did agree with you that it would be more correct to use copyright infringement. I just disagree that the use of piracy is not acceptable. I will agree that it is less correct than copyright infringement.

Good story about the deposition. If you are going to dish it out, then you need to be able to take it. : )

Hell, just let em call us all pirates then. Pirates are sexy and cool!

...and dangerous!

Shmoo

P)

my last depo...the atty hated my guts (hard to believe isn't it ...
anyway....5 hours with a short break for lunch..i drove him crazy because i kept asking him to define terms so I could answer his questions...he refused to define one term..and kept getting so mad at me, he turned beet red and forgot to quiz me on the most important issues....he was going down an impeachment track and got sidelined by his own anger....

and so it goes....

P) ...is supposed to be a "pirate" wearing an eyepatch and winking

That's remind me of something. : )

You can't handle the truth! Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? You, lieutenant Weinberg? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago, and you curse the Marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that Santiago's death, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall -- you need me on that wall.

We use words like "honor," "code," "loyalty." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon and stand the post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you're entitled to!

Did you order the "code red?"

I did the job I was --

Did you order the "code red?!"

You're damn right I did!!!

I was Code Red once...but I got the Solarcaine and stayed out of the Sun

I liked Jack Nicholson as the Joker best

Damn Code, I haven't seen you this all worked up in a while. Terrific history lesson and someone out there just has to keep calling a spade, a spade. Your efforts are appreciated. But just don't let it raise your blood pressure!!!

http://media.ebaumsworld.com/index.php?e=jacknich.mp3

Thanks Kyo....

actually...I'm 51 and have always been blessed with low bp, even thogh i eat salt like its going out of style...

My blood pressure...105/ 65...lol...
any lower and orthostatic hypotension would cause a bout of syncope

ps....that link is a legal MP3 to download..
you have to take the < br > tag off the end manually if you click the link....

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/morepranks.shtml

my fave calls are the Miss Cleo ones....
the Joe Pesci calls are well..a bit salty in the language department....

the Judge Judy calls are funny too...

LOL. That rules. I actually heard that one before - I will check out the other ones. : )

Real (or at least make-believe-real) Pirates:

http://www.slhacker.com/downloads/pirate.wav

Code, mroop, (and all the regulars here)
send me your e-mail addys so I can send ya stuff from time to time if needed.

electricgypsyband at yahoo or independentmusician at yahoo

Shmoo

Got a funny pic to share that I sent George a week or so ago, don't know if he showed yall or not

shmoo..mine is :
codewarrior_wins (at) yahoo.com

I'm a carrier of hypertension...
I don't get it...but I cause others to get it...lol

Code, )

Code - cute picture. I'm online right now

inyo_face2001[at]hotmail.com

I think the funniest part of the use of the word piracy is that everone is willing to call copyright infringement piracy but they are not willing to call their friends, relatives, and children pirates.

"Date: January 26, 2004 @ 6:24 PM
DarkhorseX, that definiton sums them up perfectly. "

Which one Mp3?

Code: what exactly WOULD be the proper way to address ya? Mr. Code? Mr. Warrior? Mr C.? Mr W. ? Keeper of definitions and abstracts?
anyhoo.. back to the topic...
if it looks like a duck, and sounds like a duck, it's probably a duck. Semantics aside the definition has stuck because of the quasi-legal aura it conjures up. People with no regard for laws they see as unjust, getting whatver they want, however they see fit, sometimes for a profit. I think that's where the whole thing started.
Am I a pirate? By the profit definition no, but I've certainly downloaded a file or two in my time.
do I mind being called a pirate? Na.. I've been called worse (thief, scoundrel, "The Defendant") by better organisations than the RIAA , and I'm still around.
Love reading everyone's feelings on the subject tho, that's why this place is so refreshing. We (I include myself in this one) can take a seemingly innocous (sp) word or topic and create rants on it that go on for pages and pages and .. oh well you know what I'm talkin about.
No flaming here, it's all good
ttmmm

if piracy and copyright infringement are interchangeable...then when real pirates get caught robbing and murdering on the high seas...they could just plead guilty of copyright infringement, and instead of life in prison as the piracy law stipulates...just get a fine

Remye- lol...Code is cool to call me...

The depo was something else...wasn't using CodeWarrior during that one...lol

if piracy and copyright infringement are interchangeable...then when real pirates get caught robbing and murdering on the high seas...they could just plead guilty of copyright infringement, and instead of life in prison as the piracy law stipulates...just get a fine

Remye- lol...Code is cool to call me...

The depo was something else...wasn't using CodeWarrior during that one...lol

my point is this Remye...
when I deal in the law....(see above posts)...I insist on proper definitions...because, I learned a long time ago, that if I control the definitions in a debate...I can win every time....

And, never have lost a legal confrontation yet..(knock on wood)...
it does matter what title you are branded with....

Think of the word "coward"...or "traitor"---just take stock of your emotional reaction...then think of hero, giant, titan, warrior, leader....you really get a different somatosensory..."gut" reaction...your body reacts at an organic, fundamental level (those into Neuro Linguistic Programming will latch on this)....

Now, personally, to me, pirate is a romantic, swashbuckling image. One pirate, during the Revolution here in America, helped us a lot...he hung out around New Orleans and surrounding areas...he was French....

But, for many, pirates a poor, homeless, dirty, uneducated, violent, criminal, lacking in morals, unpredictable, greedy, hoarders, and on and on....NOW DO YOU SEE WHY THEY WANT THE PUBLIC TO THINK OF FILESHARERS AS PIRATES?
It is shorthand for all those things they feel will marginalize, stimatize, demonize, and criminalize filesharers.

But, Cary,Amy Weiss, and the rest, have advisers...they have intentionally avoided public use of the term "copyright infringement" during the campaign so far....because they want to associate the act with a crime, and not just a petty civil tort....

Copyright infringement sounds like a snivelling, weasley complaint....

But, "fighting piracy" makes them sound noble, like they fight on galleons for the Queen of Spain, or for the Royal English Navy..firing cannons, boarding pirate vessels....fighting surly low life people who make their living by STEALING and ROBBING...Cary and Amy WANT the world to adopt this word piracy...and in Congress...Tom sent me a link where they are trying to start inserting the word "Piracy" in several laws they are trying to pass against copyrignt infringement....they are trying to insert the word piracy into the law....and I look for them to change the definiton of Title 18, Chapter 21, Section 1652, and add this copyright infringement term...

I place Semantics very high...let me tell you why.

Being called something often makes you that in people's minds...labelling people is the psychological warfare's first attempt to kill them off...to get rid of them....

For example, being labelled a "communist" whether you were or not , in the 1950s here in the US...could make it impossible for your to get a job and make a living, get an apartment, and you would start losing most of your friends....

The filthy Nazis...in their genocidal mania to kill the "Juden", started showing films in the theatres, in which they likened Jews to rats...interspersing pictures of hordes of rats with poor Jews who were unshaven and down on their luck, looking shiftily at the camera....

Labelling someone a "terrorist" today, can invoke the provisions of the Patriot Act, get you locked up, deprive you of fundamental rights of due process, and other things...

None of you guys know how many long letters I have written to websites, small town newspapers, radio, television stations, college papers...correcting them on using the word piracy referring to CI (copyright infringement)...including the good old RIAA...typically, I either get an acknowledgement and thanks for the correction (rare), or no response at all. I have never had anyone argue that I am incorrect about what the law is....

Under the Copyright Act of 1976, and the DMCA of 1998...any time you reproduce, copy, distribute any copyrighted work without the permission of the copyright holder ...and according to the "point of creation" model...at the moment of creation of an original work...the creator has a copyright on it...
(if you doodle on the paper while you are on the phone...you have just created a copyrighted work)....

a copyright violation occurs....(unless what you did falls under "fair use")

Given the abundance of xerox machines, computers, CD recording devices, etc....there are MILLIONS of copyright violations every day....
(I won't go into my theme of Every Time a Website is loaded by someone other than the creator, a copyight violation occurs).....

There is NO SUCH THING as "implied permission" for you to violate anyone's copyright according to law.

Now, taking the other approach, if words don't mean anything, let's just call every tort an act of piracy....you bump into my car...you're a friggin' pirate....you overcharge me for gas...you're a gas pirate...you "cook the books", you're an accountancy pirate....

see, it get's pretty friggin' idiotic...

We must get back to having some clarity in use of the language. Words exist to enable precise communication...they are the evolution of language beyond grunts and mumbles and ambiguous hand gestures....

At some point in time (my age is showing)....education got sloppy, and there got to be this anti-intellectual air in schools. Rap made it "cool" to use words like ho, nigga, busta cap in you ass, bitch....

I never did find it "cool" to act ignorantly. Sure, some rappers and hip hop guys like Russell Simmons got rich..but money is not the only, nor best measure of wealth.

The "ho, bitch, nigga" way of thinking and talking doesn't make you rich spiritually....it cheapens both the speaker and anyone believing this is a good way to refer to people.

I'm from the South....and white folk, especially where and when I was brought up...used the N word all the time in talking about black folk. It was wrong, it was degrading...

Mroop said that when enough people use a word incorrectly for long enough, it becomes correct...and I understand what he means...but I disagree in some respects. Using the N word to refer to black folk will never be ok...even though it has been used a long time, and by mroop's mechanism, it should be a correct word by now, using his proposed mechanism by which improper words become proper (please see his earlier comments).

I pointed out that the word piracy has been used by SOME people, to refer to copyright infringement, since at least 1668 AD...And to mroop and others, that seems to magically transform this wrongful use, now, into a proper use of the term....again, I disagree. It is NOT a proper use by me, nor anyone who wants to apply surgical precision in their speech and writings.

Dictionaries have gotten lax, and gone from a standard of defining the correct and proper use of terms, into listing "slang" and commonly used incorrect spellings....

I disagree with this. I think it is fine to have books of slang definitions published...so if you want to look up and see what "busta move" means, you can find it there...there are specialized dictionaries for the law profession, for medical, for the IT profession....and it's fine with me for there to be specialized slang and hip hop dictionaries....

I'm sorry for the rant...but my point is this. IT MATTERS WHAT WORDS YOU ARE BRANDED WITH. IT MATTERS WHAT DEFINITIONS YOU ALLOW THE OTHER SIDE TO USE IN A DEBATE.

I will continue to fight for use of the proper definition of piracy....

Thanks for your patience with my ranting
~CW

same with m-w.com

I have an old 1974 Merriam-Webster dictionary, and it gives the following definitions of Piracy:

1. Robbery on the high seas or in the air
2. The unauthorized use of another's production or invention

So I guess I have to concur with mroop in that using the word 'piracy' to refer to copyright infringement has been around for a while

I'de like to know when piracy was entered into public record and why. It seems kind of strange to take a word like piracy that has no legal basis in copyright infringement and put it in a dictionary. Something must have started it.

Bufo...did you read that long rant...
I noted that as far back as 1668...people have been wrongly using the word pirate in reference to copyright infringement ?

Sometimes I think no one reads my long, information filled rants
Please everyone read the long rants for the history of the usage of pirate...
see below...reposting...

Date: January 26, 2004 @ 7:11 PM
I did a long rant a while back on the use of the term piracy, in reference to unauthorized reproduction of copyrighted goods...It seems idiots have been doing this since around 1668...

to wit:
http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/archive/dvd-disc uss/msg07476.html
"But is it possible that the term 'pirate' was used
by the established printers of the Stationers'
Company, under Crown license, who were referring to the
new publishers who were protected under the Statute of
Anne? The timing is about the same time. As today,
there was a dispute about rights, and the one with the
money and power was railing against the newcomers who
were destroying their business? And using a derogatory
term is part and parcel of the urging of the mob to
burn the competitors' offices?

I think often one side called the nautical crews, approvingly,
"privateers" operating "under a letter of marque" and the
other called them "pirates" or "buccaneers" (a term that
dates from about 1690 and also means now "an unscrupulous
adventurer, esp. in politics or business") (Sir Walter Raleigh?)"

now...fort he history of the INCORRECT USE OF PIRATE AND PIRACY REGARDING COPYRIGHT VIOLATIONS...

"
Although I iniatially suspected that "the London pirate king" was called
by that title in a reference to Gilbert & Sullivan's "Pirates of
Penzance", the OED indicates that this term is much older.

(Oxford English Dictionary, 2nd Edition)
"4. fig.

a. One who appropriates or reproduces without leave, for his own benefit,
a literary, artistic, or musical composition, or an idea or invention of
another, or, more generally, anything that he has no right to; esp. one
who infringes on the copyright of another.

1668 J. Hancock Brooks' String of Pearls (Notice at end), Some dishonest
Booksellers, called Land-Pirats, who make it their practise to steal
Impressions of other mens Copies.
1701 De Foe True-born Eng. Explan. Pref. (1703) 6 Its being Printed again
and again by Pyrates.
1709 Steele & Addison Tatler No. 101 P1 These Miscreants are a Set of
Wretches we Authors call Pirates, who print any Book,..a soon as it
stolen Goods) at a cheaper Rate.
1837 Lockhart Scott lvii. (1839) VII. 117 A recent alarm about one of
Ballantyne's workmen..transmitting proof sheets of Peveril while at press
to some American pirate.
1861 W. Fairbairn Address Brit. Assoc., There are abuses in the working of
the patent law.., and protection is often granted to pirates and
impostors, to the detriment of real inventors.
1887 Shakespeariana VI. 105 In 1599 two of them [Shakspere's Sonnets] were
printed by the pirate Jaggard. "

To give a sense of perspective, William Kidd was executed in 1701 and
Edward Teach was killed in 1718. "
-------------------------------------------
So, apparently since at least the 17th century (circa 1668 AD) idiots have been IMPROPERLY using the terms pirates and piracy when they are talking about copyright infringement.

It reminds me of that idiot Cristobal Colon (i.e. Christopher Columbus) who was SURE he found a shortcut to India, and thus, insisted on calling the Native inhabitants, "Indians" because, OF COURSE he could not be wrong...and now, we have two groups of people in the world being referred to as "Indians"...one, inhabitants and natives of INDIA, and the other, Native Americans.

So, just because some retard, around 300 plus years ago, started using the words "pirat" (pirate) or "pyrat"..or other spelling derivations, and/or "piracy"/ "pyracy"...should modern people continue this stupidity>?

I think not...as for me, since all this deals with alleged LEGAL violations...I'll stick with the LEGAL, US definiton of pirates...
USC Title 18,Chapter 81, Section 1652...

CITE 18 USC Sec. 1652 01/26/98
TITLE 18 - CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE
PART I - CRIMES
CHAPTER 81 - PIRACY AND PRIVATEERING
Sec. 1652. Citizens as pirates
Whoever, being a citizen of the United States, commits any murder
or robbery, or any act of hostility against the United States, or
against any citizen thereof, on the high seas, under color of any
commission from any foreign prince, or state, or on pretense of
authority from any person, is a pirate, and shall be imprisoned for
life."
-------------------------------------------
Date: January 26, 2004 @ 7:59 PM
you're right undeath..
and notice...the number one definition or preferred one is :
"1. a. Robbery committed at sea. "

and, as for Promo...I say call 'em "Bromo" cause you'll need a bromoseltzer after listening to those indigestible, gas laden tunes
-----------------------------------------

Date: January 26, 2004 @ 9:22 PM
I have agreed RETARDS AND GRAMMATICAL MISFITS HAVE USED THE TERM WRONGFULLY SINCE 1668 AD AT LEAST....I JUST REFUSE USE BASTARDIZED SPEECH BECAUSE SOME CEREBRAL MIDGET IN 1668 STARTED IT...AND MODERN RETARDS AT THE RIAA WANT TO PERPETUATE PEOPLE'S MISUNDERSTAND OF THIS WORD'S PROPER USAGE.



Date: January 27, 2004 @ 9:08 AM
if piracy and copyright infringement are interchangeable...then when real pirates get caught robbing and murdering on the high seas...they could just plead guilty of copyright infringement, and instead of life in prison as the piracy law stipulates...just get a fine

Remye- lol...Code is cool to call me...

The depo was something else...wasn't using CodeWarrior during that one...lol

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CodeWarrior
Date: January 27, 2004 @ 9:51 AM
my point is this Remye...
when I deal in the law....(see above posts)...I insist on proper definitions...because, I learned a long time ago, that if I control the definitions in a debate...I can win every time....

And, never have lost a legal confrontation yet..(knock on wood)...
it does matter what title you are branded with....

Think of the word "coward"...or "traitor"---just take stock of your emotional reaction...then think of hero, giant, titan, warrior, leader....you really get a different somatosensory..."gut" reaction...your body reacts at an organic, fundamental level (those into Neuro Linguistic Programming will latch on this)....

Now, personally, to me, pirate is a romantic, swashbuckling image. One pirate, during the Revolution here in America, helped us a lot...he hung out around New Orleans and surrounding areas...he was French....

But, for many, pirates a poor, homeless, dirty, uneducated, violent, criminal, lacking in morals, unpredictable, greedy, hoarders, and on and on....NOW DO YOU SEE WHY THEY WANT THE PUBLIC TO THINK OF FILESHARERS AS PIRATES?
It is shorthand for all those things they feel will marginalize, stimatize, demonize, and criminalize filesharers.

But, Cary,Amy Weiss, and the rest, have advisers...they have intentionally avoided public use of the term "copyright infringement" during the campaign so far....because they want to associate the act with a crime, and not just a petty civil tort....

Copyright infringement sounds like a snivelling, weasley complaint....

But, "fighting piracy" makes them sound noble, like they fight on galleons for the Queen of Spain, or for the Royal English Navy..firing cannons, boarding pirate vessels....fighting surly low life people who make their living by STEALING and ROBBING...Cary and Amy WANT the world to adopt this word piracy...and in Congress...Tom sent me a link where they are trying to start inserting the word "Piracy" in several laws they are trying to pass against copyrignt infringement....they are trying to insert the word piracy into the law....and I look for them to change the definiton of Title 18, Chapter 21, Section 1652, and add this copyright infringement term...

I place Semantics very high...let me tell you why.

Being called something often makes you that in people's minds...labelling people is the psychological warfare's first attempt to kill them off...to get rid of them....

For example, being labelled a "communist" whether you were or not , in the 1950s here in the US...could make it impossible for your to get a job and make a living, get an apartment, and you would start losing most of your friends....

The filthy Nazis...in their genocidal mania to kill the "Juden", started showing films in the theatres, in which they likened Jews to rats...interspersing pictures of hordes of rats with poor Jews who were unshaven and down on their luck, looking shiftily at the camera....

Labelling someone a "terrorist" today, can invoke the provisions of the Patriot Act, get you locked up, deprive you of fundamental rights of due process, and other things...

None of you guys know how many long letters I have written to websites, small town newspapers, radio, television stations, college papers...correcting them on using the word piracy referring to CI (copyright infringement)...including the good old RIAA...typically, I either get an acknowledgement and thanks for the correction (rare), or no response at all. I have never had anyone argue that I am incorrect about what the law is....

Under the Copyright Act of 1976, and the DMCA of 1998...any time you reproduce, copy, distribute any copyrighted work without the permission of the copyright holder ...and according to the "point of creation" model...at the moment of creation of an original work...the creator has a copyright on it...
(if you doodle on the paper while you are on the phone...you have just created a copyrighted work)....

a copyright violation occurs....(unless what you did falls under "fair use")

Given the abundance of xerox machines, computers, CD recording devices, etc....there are MILLIONS of copyright violations every day....
(I won't go into my theme of Every Time a Website is loaded by someone other than the creator, a copyight violation occurs).....

There is NO SUCH THING as "implied permission" for you to violate anyone's copyright according to law.

Now, taking the other approach, if words don't mean anything, let's just call every tort an act of piracy....you bump into my car...you're a friggin' pirate....you overcharge me for gas...you're a gas pirate...you "cook the books", you're an accountancy pirate....

see, it get's pretty friggin' idiotic...

We must get back to having some clarity in use of the language. Words exist to enable precise communication...they are the evolution of language beyond grunts and mumbles and ambiguous hand gestures....

At some point in time (my age is showing)....education got sloppy, and there got to be this anti-intellectual air in schools. Rap made it "cool" to use words like ho, nigga, busta cap in you ass, bitch....

I never did find it "cool" to act ignorantly. Sure, some rappers and hip hop guys like Russell Simmons got rich..but money is not the only, nor best measure of wealth.

The "ho, bitch, nigga" way of thinking and talking doesn't make you rich spiritually....it cheapens both the speaker and anyone believing this is a good way to refer to people.

I'm from the South....and white folk, especially where and when I was brought up...used the N word all the time in talking about black folk. It was wrong, it was degrading...

Mroop said that when enough people use a word incorrectly for long enough, it becomes correct...and I understand what he means...but I disagree in some respects. Using the N word to refer to black folk will never be ok...even though it has been used a long time, and by mroop's mechanism, it should be a correct word by now, using his proposed mechanism by which improper words become proper (please see his earlier comments).

I pointed out that the word piracy has been used by SOME people, to refer to copyright infringement, since at least 1668 AD...And to mroop and others, that seems to magically transform this wrongful use, now, into a proper use of the term....again, I disagree. It is NOT a proper use by me, nor anyone who wants to apply surgical precision in their speech and writings.

Dictionaries have gotten lax, and gone from a standard of defining the correct and proper use of terms, into listing "slang" and commonly used incorrect spellings....

I disagree with this. I think it is fine to have books of slang definitions published...so if you want to look up and see what "busta move" means, you can find it there...there are specialized dictionaries for the law profession, for medical, for the IT profession....and it's fine with me for there to be specialized slang and hip hop dictionaries....

I'm sorry for the rant...but my point is this. IT MATTERS WHAT WORDS YOU ARE BRANDED WITH. IT MATTERS WHAT DEFINITIONS YOU ALLOW THE OTHER SIDE TO USE IN A DEBATE.

I will continue to fight for use of the proper definition of piracy....

THATS IT....I'M DONE...

Code,

Believe it or not, I did read your earlier (long) post before my post. And I agree that "pirate" is not really an appropriate term to describe copyright infringement.

But I just wanted to point out that mroop is correct in that dictionaries have been equating "piracy" to copyright infringement for quite some time. This fact doesn't make it right, of course. It's sort of like using the word "rape" to mean that you were ripped off.

cool...

When I took a course, a few years back, on logic, we learned of one fallacy called the fallacy of equivocation. This fallacy happens when a word or expression has two (or more) different meanings, and someone writes an argument where the word is used in two different meanings, but we are supposed to pretend that both occurances of that word refer to one and only one thing. For example, consider this (faulty) argument:

"Newspapers should report any information that is in the public interest. The public interest in Jack Smith's extra-marital affairs is high. Therefore, the newspapers should cover his affairs in great detail."

Here, this argument is likely to appear quite reasonable if we don't realise that the expression "public interest" is used in two different meanings. In the first, we use public interest to mean something that affects the public good, that the public should know because it concerns them. For example, if a local factory has been dumping toxic pollutants in nearby rivers and lakes, the public deserves to know, since it's in their best interest to know. But, in the second use, public interest is used to refer to the public's desire for gossip, which is not the same meaning that the word had in its first use. So, this argument commits the fallacy of equivocation.

Now, suppose that someone were to make this argument:

"Piracy is a terrible crime. It deserves to be regarded as a brutal crime, comitted only by absolutely dispicable individuals, who deserve harsh punishments. This young girl in front of me is a pirate. Therefore, she is a dispicable person, deserving of harsh punishments."

Of course, if someone were to make this sort of argument, then they would, absolutely, indeed, be committing the fallacy of equivocation. Indeed, the first statement is based on the real definition of piracy, and the second uses an incorrect definition of the word piracy. The argument appears valid if we don't notice this equivocation.

So, STRICTLY SPEAKING, having the word piracy used to refer to two different things should not pose a problem, since, if anyone ever gives this argument, someone could refute the argument by pointing out that she is using the word pirate in two different senses. In that case, anyone with a good eye for errors in logic would refute this argument.

HOWEVER:

1. I said that, if the word piracy officially referred to both its real meaning and to copyright infringment, the above-mentionned argument would not be valid. However, weather or not we should oppose the formal recognition of the word piracy to refer to CI depends not so much (not at all?) on weather the above argument is valid, but on weather or not people are likely to be fooled by it, notwithstanding its invalidity. That is, even though, from a logic point of view, people would not be justified in getting the same bad feelings about CI as they do towards real piracy, the likelihood that they will in fact be fooled is still present, which justifies the opposition of using the word piracy to refer to copyright infringment.

2. Many people would not explicitly state this argument, if the RIAA's brainwashing succeeds. Rather, they would take it for granted, and so, they would be guided by this incorrect principle, without actually ever saying it explicitly. Hence, if this thought is not spoken out load, but merely thought in the minds of many, clever people would not have the oppurtunity to point out the folly of this sort of reasoning. That is, it's not like people would go around saying that argument; they instead would just let that thinking lead them to bad decisions.

So, for these two reasons, I feel that, notwitstanding that theroretically it would not be a problem to have the word piracy refer both the conventional piracy and copyright infringment, it is in practice not advisable to have this happen. It would tip the scale in favour of those who have a vested interest in fooling people into treating copyright infringment as the moral equivalent of real piracy.

So, long story short, indeed, I agree wholeheartedly with Code and others that the use of the word piracy to refer to copyright infringment is harmful, and likely to lead people into faulty reasoning, and that people will, unfortunately, act on this faulty reasoning.

Also, I can't speak for others, but I normally do read Code's rants in full instead of glossing over them. I find them quite interesting, and quite intelligent (and I am not just saying that to be nice).

- A Nice Canadain Guy